Session Start: Sat Jun 18 13:39:51 2011 Session Ident: #nonprophets [13:39] * Now talking in #nonprophets [13:39] * Topic is 'Topic for #nonprophets is: The Non-Prophets will perhaps be live on the 18th of June, 2011 at 2pm CDT, 7pm UTC. Stay tuned to find out! Visit http://www.nonprophetsradio.com at your leisure.' [13:39] * Set by debdrup!debdrup@nerdheaven.ws on Sat Jun 18 10:54:19 [13:39] * mond has joined #nonprophets [13:39] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao Non-Prophets Non-Prophets [13:40] :o ! [13:40] * sn1989 has joined #nonprophets [13:41] -> *chanserv* topic #nonprophets Tune in to hear the Non-Prophets LIVE, today at 3pm eastern! Visit http://www.nonprophetsradio.com for connection information! [13:41] -> *chanserv* topic [13:45] Has anyone tried connecting to the stream? I'm used to seeing several attempts when it starts and it's sitting at zero now [13:45] Yes. [13:45] I get an error message [13:45] Like the file does not exist on the server [13:46] The first of the secondary streams asks for a login [13:46] Yes, no joy [13:46] * Scott has joined #nonprophets [13:46] Actually, it is saying server not found [13:46] Possible the DNS for the server is broken [13:46] Does anyone know the servers IP address? [13:47] * FugRWi has joined #nonprophets [13:47] -> *chanserv* topic #nonprophets Tune in to hear the Non-Prophets LIVE, today at 3pm eastern! Visit http://www.nonprophetsradio.com for connection information! [13:48] Have to reboot this. [13:48] I'm connected to one of the alternate streams, I think. [13:48] * Disconnected Session Close: Sat Jun 18 13:48:41 2011 Session Start: Sat Jun 18 14:10:54 2011 Session Ident: #nonprophets [14:10] * Now talking in #nonprophets [14:10] * Topic is 'Topic for #nonprophets is: The Non-Prophets will be live on the 18th of June, 2011 at 2pm CDT, 7pm UTC. Stay tuned to find out! Visit http://www.nonprophetsradio.com at your leisure.' [14:10] * Set by debdrup on Sat Jun 18 14:05:40 [14:10] dyndns is an online DNS serice that lets you get a temporary URL for any IP, but you have to update it manually [14:10] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-13823427 [14:10] * aMartianSpy has joined #nonprophets [14:10] OK, listen up [14:11] our dyndns is broken and I don't have time to fix it...Matthew Chapman is our guest and on hold [14:11] Don't need dyndns, just an IP :) [14:11] So...we're going to record the show - but not actually stream it. I'll get it posted to the podcast quickly and get the stream fixed for next week [14:11] I think it would work if we just got the IP [14:11] :( [14:12] Shit happens :-) [14:12] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao Non-Prophets Non-Prophets [14:12] * Sexygirl69 has joined #nonprophets [14:12] OK, I'll try with the IP [14:12] but we're running out of time [14:12] No worries - give it a whirl, and if it works it works. [14:12] * MrSunshine has joined #nonprophets [14:12] Meh, fiddling with tech would be a headache. Do what you gotta do, we'll catch it when it's posted. Thanks for the update. [14:12] If not, we'll blame the gods we don't believe in. :D [14:12] just replace the domain name by the ip address [14:13] 66.90.151.105 [14:13] dimbnd: it's not a domain name, it's a canonical name. [14:13] Try that...if it works, great, if not, we'll get it next week [14:13] http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls [14:13] http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls [14:13] Yes, what he said [14:14] * keightytwo has quit IRC (keightytwo) [14:14] Seems to be working :) [14:14] Non-Prophets: I'm connected, so it works. [14:14] Working for me. [14:14] i'm connected [14:14] sweet [14:14] Me too [14:14] Connected [14:14] Yep, it works [14:14] not hearing anything yet, though [14:14] you guys are tech miricle workers [14:14] or not [14:14] Hey, the gods must be crazy, cuz it works. [14:15] * User has quit IRC (Leaving) [14:15] I'm hearing static. alright [14:15] Retales: you should hear a tiny bit of interference. [14:15] * keightytwo has joined #nonprophets [14:15] * User has joined #nonprophets [14:15] It's the space pirates that's listening in on the stream, man [14:15] Yarr. [14:15] Yes, skype noises [14:15] skype [14:15] sound! [14:15] yayy [14:15] feedback? [14:15] lol, I thought someone was calling me on skype [14:15] Anna - Im going to church because i never stop looking, and if God is going to strike me with revelation then it may as well be in his house? [14:15] what was the link again? [14:15] Alright, I've disconnected again because I always catch the podcast. [14:16] * Rensin has quit IRC (Rensin) [14:16] why is church "his" house [14:16] keightytwo: http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls [14:16] GodlessAussie: Mightn't it be just like when you're sleeping in? :D [14:16] * User has quit IRC (User) [14:16] Matt's voice just scared the crap out of my cat [14:16] * debdrup changes topic to 'Topic for #nonprophets is: The Non-Prophets will be live on the 18th of June, 2011 at 2pm CDT, 7pm UTC. Stay tuned to find out! Visit http://www.nonprophetsradio.com at your leisure. Listen at http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls' [14:16] *just as likely [14:16] It was loud [14:16] I'm glad I live in future times. [14:16] I'm ready [14:16] because thats what people say. Church is God's house. [14:16] * keightytwo has quit IRC (keightytwo) [14:16] My body is ready [14:16] * debdrup changes topic to 'Topic for #nonprophets is: The Non-Prophets will be live on the 18th of June, 2011 at 2pm CDT, 7pm UTC. Stream is live: Listen at http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls Visit htt13p://www.nonpro7phetsradio.com at your leisure. ' [14:16] me2 thx [14:16] that's not what my people say [14:17] I've sent a pm to asonge. no idea if (s)he'll read it...maybe not after idling for a couple of weeks :D [14:17] * keightytwo has joined #nonprophets [14:17] the church is just a building, it's no one's house [14:17] as well as it is good to listen to what people believe [14:17] Music [14:17] i have to live in a world with these people so its good to know what they are saying [14:17] * jjwp has joined #nonprophets [14:17] Spaaaaaace! [14:17] so much space? [14:17] you act like there are only christians in the world [14:18] * frmj has joined #nonprophets [14:18] no [14:18] there are just no other religious intitutions close to where i live [14:18] are you sure? [14:18] yeah [14:18] i looked [14:18] Minstrels....mmmm.... chocolate [14:18] where do you live? [14:18] There could be wiccans in some basement [14:18] hello, what is the user name and password to the stream? [14:18] in suburban australia [14:19] newcomers: http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls [14:19] which suburb? [14:19] I'm in a very religious conservative area and even here there's a buddhist temple only... 3 minutes from my house [14:19] frmj: the url in the topic doesn't require a username or password. [14:19] thanks! [14:19] why do you want to do the same google search i did [14:19] yes [14:19] there's no reason you should only listen to christians [14:19] * Paroxysm has joined #nonprophets [14:19] i dont [14:19] ouch... [14:19] "Yes" is not a very good answer to a question of why.. ;) [14:20] Matt lives...horray. [14:20] I feel that Wiccans would prefer a cave. [14:20] Stream up? [14:20] @deb, depends on how you say it [14:20] i listen to anyone i can get my hands on [14:20] http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls [14:20] * Kazim has joined #nonprophets [14:20] AnnaBucci: not really. Just like, oh I don't know, "God" isn't an answer to any question science can ask. [14:20] @deb, really [14:20] Really. :) [14:20] /clap [14:20] YAY! [14:21] *clapclapclap* [14:21] woohoo [14:21] *clap* [14:21] WOOOO [14:21] * SubTachyon has joined #nonprophets [14:21] Needs more slow clap. [14:21] (stadium wave) [14:21] Can someone link me the stream pleae? [14:21] http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls [14:21] SubTachyon: it's in the topic [14:21] \o\ |o| /o/ [14:21] @deb, don't confuse me with your average theist [14:21] Can't ANYONE read? [14:21] No [14:21] * malanori has joined #nonprophets [14:21] * tc has joined #nonprophets [14:21] ty [14:21] @deb, some people do not see the topic [14:21] * James has quit IRC (James) [14:21] AnnaBucci: Oh, I'm sorry. Is there such a thing as a non-average theist? [14:22] The topic is cut off [14:22] The topic isnt' readable from my end [14:22] @deb, yes. [14:22] Welp, I haven't met any. [14:22] how so? [14:22] ps. No, no one can read, it's why they are on a chat [14:22] you have now [14:22] wiil you people tell me where to go? [14:22] "...live on the 18t" is as far as it goes for me [14:22] HuffPo? MOstly on AOL News [14:22] AnnaBucci: No, I've met someone claiming to be an average theist. I've met plenty of those before, and they've all turned out to be very average. [14:22] I have the option to set up trillian so that topics aren't shown in the chatrooms, some programs may have somethign similar [14:23] The most aggression is AOL News [14:23] oh no not the huffpo [14:23] @deb, k. I'm not average [14:23] * ernie has joined #nonprophets [14:23] HuffPo is getting bad now that the AOL conservatives are on it [14:23] I'm unique [14:23] Mom said so [14:23] lol [14:23] * frmj has quit IRC (frmj) [14:23] AnnaBucci: again, that's a claim you're going to have to prove, other than the generic uniqueness of your snowflake you that everyone else has, I mean. [14:24] im confused about the term "average" when applied to a theist, what does that mean?? [14:24] @deb, I have no problem proving it [14:24] HuffPo has been bad since Deepka Chopra, homeopaths and anti-vaccers got on it [14:24] anna, are you a polytheist? [14:24] where can I hear the stream? [14:24] true, parox [14:24] tc: http://66.90.151.105:8000/listen.pls [14:24] tc /topic [14:24] thank you [14:24] @godlessaussie, basically your average theist would be a christian or similar [14:24] Uh.. Not really, no. [14:24] @keightytwo yep [14:25] really yes [14:25] christian is only "average" in the US [14:25] * tc has quit IRC (tc) [14:25] it's average in other countries as well [14:25] Oh, you called the atheist experience a few months agO? [14:25] Overall Christian is average.... [14:25] the US and similar. But not on the whole [14:25] yep [14:25] I remember you [14:25] average is a concept that tell you nothing specific [14:25] Considering the amount of people that are theists but not Christian (not counting the very divergent types of Christianity), "average" would clearly have to include the Asian religions. [14:25] thanks [14:25] I guess that's why atheists confront christianity more than any other religion [14:25] And between the counties, they are not "average" [14:26] and atheists tend to treat theists ads if they were christian [14:26] as* [14:26] Atheists in particular countries dealing with the average religion [14:26] ^ [14:26] * carlh has joined #nonprophets [14:26] Well, in the U.S and Canada, most theists are Christian so it gets more attention. [14:26] it does [14:27] If the US were Hindu majority, ahteists would speak more to that in US [14:27] Which atheists do that? I would highly hope atheists don't assume anything and rather inquire regarding the position of the person they're having a conversation with, AnnaBucci. [14:27] all the ones I've spoken with, uncluding you [14:27] including* [14:27] Where have I ever assumed you were Christian? [14:27] you assumed I thing "god" is the answer to every science question [14:27] think* [14:27] I bet atheists in cultures that have other dominant religions address those dominating religions. [14:28] Yep [14:28] That's a general observation of God of the Gaps arguments [14:28] * carlh has left #nonprophets [14:28] AnnaBucci: plenty of non-Christian theists think this, including deists. [14:28] I think it would depend on the religion, keightytwo [14:28] including islam and judaism [14:29] No it doesn't depend on the religion, Anna [14:29] how so? [14:29] yes it does [14:29] To not think that god does stuff in science questions is to render that 'god' obsolete [14:29] I disagree denamic [14:29] * Diaphanus has joined #nonprophets [14:29] Please explain [14:29] You need a gap to stuff the god into [14:29] So why are you a theist, exactly? [14:30] it depends on the religion because not all religions are disagreeable to atheism [14:30] Explain. You'll probably say atheists in Mulim countries, don't but they do. [14:30] @deb, it feels good [14:30] HA! [14:30] That doesn't factor [14:30] As if that ever mattered. [14:30] No, I probably won't say that ggggg [14:30] I feel fucking great and I'm atheist as fuck. [14:30] @deb good for you [14:30] The majority religion that is open to atheism isn't a factor [14:30] hold up guys and gals [14:30] I think it is [14:30] Salvete! Hello! [14:30] I feel great and I am Satanist. [14:31] lol [14:31] Anna - If you care if your beliefs are true then feelings dont cut it [14:31] if it weren't for being closeted and living at home, atheism would feel pretty great for me too, annabucci [14:31] if not that is fine [14:31] godless, ok [14:31] I feel great and I am a Troll [14:31] but it's much better than when i was religious [14:31] personally [14:31] I bet doing drugs feels good too [14:31] I don't need to delude myself into believing nonsense to get the feel-good benefits that theism claims to offer. [14:31] I does [14:31] AnnaBucci: those "religions" (if you count zen buddhism, for example) have nothing to do with religion (except for a small subset of sects) - so I don't know why you're including them in theistic outviews as theism tends to mean 'discussion about' god(s). [14:31] I can attest to that [14:32] does beth not have a mic? [14:32] Not enough mics [14:32] yeah [14:32] those religions have nothing to do with religion? [14:32] Oh yeah, love triangles [14:32] I am my own God. [14:32] With the general definition of religion from a theistic point of view, I should have said. [14:32] those are the best kind of romantic geometry [14:32] tehe [14:33] hehe [14:33] AnneH: romantic geometry sounds kinda awesome. [14:33] though there are lots of good things to be said about parallelograms [14:33] Romantic vector geometry hmmmm [14:33] Sexy - What about Satanism swayed you and which particular brand? [14:33] * zach has quit IRC (zach) [14:33] Is it like spooning except you and your partner try to get into a rhombic shape? [14:33] I would say its hard to have a religion without a god. I would say any I have come across strike me more like a philosophy. [14:33] *rustles up some graph paper* lets figure this out... [14:34] *Opens mathematica* [14:34] keightytwo: see zen buddhism (excluding smaller sects which have actual "gods" (though not by definition of most theists).. [14:34] Acute love triangle [14:34] I would say hinduism is pretty dominant in some places and there's no conflict with atheism with it, therefore atheists wouldn't need to rail against it like atheists here do to christianity [14:34] The Ledge... no theatrical release in Europe in sight :( [14:34] http://xkcd.com/55/ [14:34] @denamic LOL [14:34] Oh, I am more of a philosophical Satanist. [14:34] AnneH: as a geek, I'm thoroughly excited about romantic geometry. :D [14:35] AnnaBucci: that's probably because hinduism doesn't try to force itself down everyone's throat and control the lives of everyone around it. [14:35] Sexy - Ok so its like im a philosophical Pastafarian? [14:35] @deb, exactly [14:35] except [14:36] AnnaBucci: what was your point originally? [14:36] athesits do rail angainst hinduism [14:36] WEll they don't eat cows [14:36] Weirdos [14:36] there are atheists in india that are hugely against hinduism because of the harm it causes [14:36] that it's dependant on the religion as to whether atheists living in a cultured dominated by a religion will oppose it like atheists do here with christianity [14:36] Indeed. Mmmmm, cows. [14:36] no [14:36] im a vegetarian [14:36] no cows [14:37] I'm glad you're vegetarian, more meat for me [14:37] don't dis your guest matt! [14:37] Anna- You big murderer :P [14:37] AnnaBucci: so it's natural to say that the reason atheists might wrongly assume you're Christian is because they're from a culture in which a very dominant and forceful religion is trying to force-feed itself to them? [14:37] KILL THE MURDERER! [14:37] it's not illegal to kill animals for food [14:38] well, it is like the way Nietzche decalred himself the antichrist. I like the idea of Satan as an opposer to all religions and being is own god. [14:38] not legally [14:38] his [14:38] @deb, they assume I'm christian because they live in a culture dominated by christians, so to them theist = christian. [14:38] Also, you still haven't proven that I assumed you were a Christian - I'm quite sure you won't find me doing it, I'm an amateur semantician - not likely to be caught in such a trap. [14:38] i didnt say it was illegal but i was implying that it was immoral [14:38] * aeneasdave has joined #nonprophets [14:38] Bingo, Russell [14:38] murder is unlawful killing [14:39] If I'm going to be thrown into jail for being a creophage, just don't throw me in with the lion who murdered and ate the poor antelope. [14:39] tre [14:39] Why is it that any statement in a debate that contains the name 'Brad Pitt' always produce laughter? [14:39] @denamic... some kind of godwin's law corollary, i'm sure [14:39] AnnaBucci: my point is, however, that they really shouldn't - and that they should know better regardless of what culture they were brought in. [14:39] * NeutronJack has joined #nonprophets [14:40] Seriously -- is there a certain way to listen? [14:40] @deb, when you thought I think "god" is the answer to science questions, it's because you thought I was a christian and use the god of the gaps argument. [14:40] men are mortal, brad pitt is a man, therefore brad pitt is mortal [14:40] @deb, I agree they shouldn't, but it happens. A lot. [14:40] AnnaBucci: no. I said before that plenty of non-Christian theists claim that god is the answer to science quesions. [14:40] You don't have to be a Christian to use a God of the Gaps argument [14:41] at the end of the topic is the stream address [14:41] He's funny for some reason. Inexplicable [14:41] @deb, it's true there are non-christians who might think that, but that's not why you thought I would think it. I told you I'm a theist, therefore you assumed I'm christian which is why you made that remark. [14:41] ggggg: inexplicable implies there's no reason behind it, but you previously said 'for some reason'.. Make up your mind. :P [14:41] Why are you guys wasting your time with meta-arguments? [14:41] lol [14:42] Who's the guest? [14:42] This is IRC [14:42] You ARE a semanticstician (however you spell it) !!! ;) [14:42] It's made to waste time [14:42] cookie-qatar [14:42] * Diaphanus has quit IRC (Goodbye) [14:42] Matthew Chapman [14:42] * Diaphanus has joined #nonprophets [14:42] Ok... there is a reason, but inexplicable from my POV [14:42] Better? Heh [14:42] AnnaBucci: actually, that's exactly why I thought it - because it's a very common thing for theists to claim, in my experience. [14:42] Darwin descendant? [14:42] @deb, I don't claim it though. [14:42] yeah [14:42] that guy [14:42] Cool. [14:43] * aeneasdave has quit IRC (aeneasdave) [14:43] ggggg: non-evident might be a better word. And yes, I'm guilty of that label - since I gave it to myself previously. ;) [14:43] I wish I could call into TAE tomorrow, but I'll be at work. I have an awesome question. [14:43] anna - if i have this right you are a theist (non descriptive), because it feels good, and you dont use the god of the gaps argument? [14:43] pedantic? [14:43] Paroxysm: that too. [14:43] Anna, deb said someting to the effect of "god is not an answer to any question science can ask" I don't think it was directed at you specifically [14:43] pedants make me rage [14:43] I saw that. And I'll be more careful (I appreciate "say what you mean") [14:44] godless, I'm theist for varfious reasons. I just say it's because it feels good because there's no way to argue against that. And yes I do not use the god of the gaps argument. [14:44] Paroxysm: why? Would you rather we shout at each other in grunts? Pedants serve a purpose. [14:44] keighty, it was directed at me [14:44] Then teh qeustion becomes, would feeling good about a position give it validity? [14:44] AnnaBucci: oh, so you read minds too? [14:45] @dep, not yet [14:45] If you have a killer question then if you shout loud enough at Matt, he may answer it during this show? [14:45] Well, the comment was, but she didn't say that you would necessariy be the one to claim god as an answer [14:45] he's interviewing right now, godless [14:45] No way to argue against that? If theism were a glorified form of recreation rather than a system of epistemology, I'd buy that. [14:45] AnnaBucci: yet you just insinuated that you do, since you claim to know whether the sentence above was directed specifically at you and not as a general remark regardint theists (whether Christian or not). [14:45] i know, AFTER the interview [14:46] Ask your question, someone might pass it to him or butt in [14:46] @dep, you may have inferred erroneously that I do, but I certainly did not insinuate it. [14:46] ggggg: you said butt [14:46] Oh wait, I did too. [14:46] lol [14:46] deb's comment was directed at me because she was replying to me. [14:46] huh-huh-huh-huh! ;) [14:46] he said mor butt [14:46] Heh heh heh heh! [14:46] HEYYOOO! [14:47] * GodlessAussie giggles, then laughs [14:47] is it sad that i'm enjoying a chatroom that has just dissolved into saying "butt" and giggling? [14:47] <-- literally lol-ing [14:47] Yes [14:47] Ok, here's my question : I've been told the only way a religion can be popular is if it has an extreme reward/punishment system such as heaven and hell, what do you think of this claim? [14:47] AnnaBucci: what gave you the idea that I'm of the female sex, perchance? [14:47] anna, talking TO you yes, but not ABOUT you is what I meant. [14:47] @deb, nothing, I think it's rude to call you "it" though [14:48] I don't agree with that statement, Anna. [14:48] People like black and white thinking, heaven/hell religions are more appealing [14:48] AnnaBucci: bunk, see various types of shinto beliefs and in general everything of buddhistic nature. There's nothing whatsoever about heaven or hell in buddhism. [14:48] did he just give permission to pirate this? [14:48] satanism is popular and there is no punishment [14:48] I think some people honestly don't believe in the extreme bad part [14:48] satanism is pretty much a troll religion a far as I know [14:48] what do you think, Anna? [14:48] AnnaBucci: yet you wrongly assumed that I am, in fact, of the superior sex - pray tell, what led you to this assumption? [14:48] "satanism is popular"??? By what standard? [14:48] Now see, that's what I said but the opposition was vehemently disagreeing with me on that point [14:49] POLARIZE MOAR! [14:49] among metalheads. Many are Satanists. [14:49] Most metalheads I know are just plain old atheists [14:49] just like among atheists many are pastafarian [14:49] @deb, I didn't assume, I just picked a pronoun. I don't mind being corrected on your gender if you wish. [14:50] They just like the aesthetic [14:50] LOL @ pray tell [14:50] Wow, so Satanism is up to 0.001%. That's popular. [14:50] there are non-gender specific singular pronouns to use- "zie" and "hir" for example [14:50] from now on i will only ever use he/she, look at the argument that has erupted [14:50] not in english, aside from it [14:50] Well, the many I know are Satanists. [14:51] I'm gonna say "them there" [14:51] AnnaBucci: you did, though - assume, that is. And I've already provided as much hint of a correction as I like to. [14:51] * jjwp has quit IRC (jjwp) [14:51] from now on I'll pick a pronoun and I really don't care if it starts a useless argument [14:51] ggggg: why not "ya'll there beings"? [14:51] ohh... i don't know if that would be 'robbery'. would the pirates have ever paid for the program? [14:51] Oh no, piracy is bad? [14:51] debdrup - a proponent of androgeny [14:51] Time for draconian measures [14:51] "Hey, go ask them-there-they if they want more coffee" [14:52] GodlessAussie: nah, I just like discussing semantics. [14:52] How does copying a DVD take money from a carpenter? It's not as if the carpenters get money for each DVD sold. [14:52] @deb, I did not assume that you are female. I happened to use a female pronoun. I could've just as easily use a male pronoun. I picked one because I think it's rude to call you "it". [14:52] * Diaphanus has left #nonprophets [14:52] * Diaphanus has joined #nonprophets [14:52] you could use one [14:52] AnnaBucci: isn't you 'happening to use a female pronoun' an assumption you've made (however unconcious it seems to have been, since you're not going to stand by it howevermuch I make this point)? [14:52] gender neutral identifiers are possible.... [14:52] @deb no [14:52] Come on, Anna, I would have used "she", too based on the username. it's Ok to admit it. ;) [14:53] I don't see where this is going [14:53] Gender common! ^_~ [14:53] One. my favorite pronoun! [14:53] I don't think debdrup is a male or female username. I don't know what it is actually. [14:53] AnnaBucci: I'm pretty sure that's exactly the assumption you made, and that it was apparently unconcious. You're not the first to do it, however - and definitely not the last. [14:53] Who -- my favorite pronoun! [14:53] Ladies, Gentlemen and everyone in between, please settle down [14:53] By the way, Anna might be a guy. Guys often use women as internet avatars. [14:53] He said, she said. [14:53] ggggg: I wonder if there's an actual statistic for that. [14:53] @deb, you maybe sure of your error, but it still remains an error. [14:54] My character in Fallout New Vegas is female [14:54] I must be a woman then? [14:54]